#009 Activism And Surviving Trauma With Vicky Alhadeff transcript

Please note the following transcript will contain errors as it is automated and is not always accurate but you will get the gist!

hi I’m Suzana Kalcic and you’re listening to life in practice podcast I’m curious about the big questions in life and how we can experience more meaning and fulfillment every day join me as my guests share their challenges successes and what it means to put our purpose our bodies and our lives in practice hello and welcome to life in practice podcast this is your host Suzana and today my guest is Vicky Alhadeff. Vicky is a animal behaviorist of rights are and vegan welcome Vicky thank you very much so vicuna you are both connected it’s over actually having a starter and we met at a at a Toastmasters clubs and %HESITATION yeah so we had a lot to to share about our %HESITATION struggling experience off stuttering and also wanting to work on our speech and become better speakers I’m vacate so I’m what was unusual about you was your starter actually started was it when you were nineteen that’s right %HESITATION does my second year at university mmhm I had moved in to live with my mother because she admits to Capetown university adds %HESITATION I’d let somebody go teach in university M. quite far from Zimbabwe antithesis beds %HESITATION %HESITATION hurt as her husband died my stepfather died and she moved to Cape Town and it is very tough yet we had a very challenging relationship and test all the time and I developed a stomach M. which is quite mortifying %HESITATION because all of a sudden I couldn’t speak fluently and and for the rest of my university career %HESITATION as as I became aware that I could stomach I see I began to speak less and less %HESITATION %HESITATION %HESITATION %HESITATION %HESITATION instead I speak as fast as I possibly could to to avoid inflicting must Emma on other people which meant that the class speaking foster estimativa mall and blocked even mall and then people didn’t have a cute what I’m trying to say and so basically stop speaking for about three years on and it did not come it did you do you do you think that your stuttering %HESITATION happened because of the relationship they have with your mom yes twenty three AM I mean the actual situation was I’ve been on a trip and and one of the guys on the trip %HESITATION came to visit me nine you she was listening with a walk it to the wall and I was so tense I wasn’t even interested in the guy but are still very tense and and because I knew she was there I I stammered and I was shocked to hear muscle stomach that never was damaged so badly before and %HESITATION and then after that she said you know what what what we talking like that full as if it was deliberate and then and then a few days later there’s another quite tense situation an estimate and then I just became aware that I could and I’m because I started focusing on it’s a naturally started stomach and then it became a habit yeah the the I imagine that must have been quite scary because especially at that age to have something like that happen completely especially I was I was shot at the best of times so %HESITATION set set up a stand on top of being shy this was %HESITATION met maids speaking and having relationships kind of virtually impossible but did you seek out some therapy or anything to to help you or was it %HESITATION like did you feel very ashamed of it initially for quite a few years I I was just very ashamed of it and and mystery became units and then only if he if he has so when I was about twenty two so if he is later I was I was working at %HESITATION another as working at a university in Johannesburg and there was a speech clinic at the university and decided to go for speech therapy then and the and the island’s Atlantic a technique just was very helpful %HESITATION what was the technique is called continuous foundation we we sliced pizza right down and then start building it up to it to kind of it but and at a good speed but back then and continues to nation meant that I wasn’t having a break between anyway it’s and then you dont but break then there’s no time there’s no possibility to stamina hello and and it worked but then I moved to London for eighteen months and if I got to practice how what do you think about techniques like that because I find the maybe they’re kind of almost like a like a bandaid stand over the symptoms because realistically are you really gonna speak like that yes yes it’s I mean the idea was to teaching you habit of speaking so but but it does require a lot of practice and and and and I think I agree that it is more moderate bandaids because unless I continue to practice M. it just fell away which is what happened and then %HESITATION and it is any many years later when I moved to London I gained almost you K. again that a fund the city eight I am tell me a bit about like the psychological toll that it took %HESITATION when you were like especially at university and growing up trying to form friendships and %HESITATION and relationships how did how did that affect you did you have like anxiety or depression or anything like that with the stamina yes yes yes huge %HESITATION in in at university when I began to stomach I did see %HESITATION and my second especially I went into depression my third year I moved into a house with friends but I I think I spent a couple of months not getting able to get is to let judges I was I was the I became very very depressed %HESITATION and also because I at that point I was nineteen I couldn’t see a way out so I didn’t really know about psychotherapy hello what I didn’t I mean I’m at at issue I was studying psychology studied now by psychotherapy that’s it that I’d I wasn’t blind I didn’t ink to plot to myself or to seek it out myself why did you feel that M. almost like that your situation seem to be a hopeless yeah yeah yeah mmhm yeah and that was us I yeah I was stuck in a sometimes %HESITATION I think %HESITATION well I find if I’m too depressed than that I don’t seek help if I’m just getting out of it that that’s gonna start researching courses and ways to help me Cynthia a how do you get for from from that point when you’re like really depressing you just you just can’t do anything to get that kind of like whole maybe maybe there is some hope maybe if I try this so I think a lot of people go through that yeah I think %HESITATION I didn’t sink to the bottom and that will obviously not the top total bottom but that then I think I think that the elements that’s an optimistic and me and and I’m very curious and and I do love courses %HESITATION I mean friends laugh at me at the moment of course that I. D. but that’s in the affluence and and I’m not always always study the rest of my life because you know this so much there’s so much to learn and and and I think it’s I think it’s that bit of optimism me that drives me to to seek out something that can help me and and even if it’s an also reading I love reading and and and islands %HESITATION one of the trips I’ve been on inotes at that second year was was to go to what’s one night to study bird density and vegetation growth and and again this beautiful wildlife preserve with with all the old amazing animals that are in Botswana well in Africa ends and that made me want to study that maybe went to study I don’t admit might want to study animals and animals one study ethology the study of animal behavior %HESITATION initially Dennis was wildlife that’s in a bit later on when to come study companion animals who are as every bit as fascinating as wildlife no selenium and especially because we got a much closer relationship to them as well exactly exactly and and then it will the I mean they they need help because they’re living with us and we have such different needs %HESITATION yeah absolutely yes I am but I just wanna go back a bit because I think I am one of the reasons why I think that your such a great guest to have is that you know you’re the during the course of your life you face so many challenges and I feel like your resilience and your compassion is just shining through and %HESITATION yeah and I’d love to I’d love to know a bit more about them what that’s what the road is being night for you so I know what you mentioned before I think in your early life some of the the major struggles was that %HESITATION the challenging relationship we had with with your mom and then which that which you think M. trigger then %HESITATION having a having a a a a starter yes when did the did the %HESITATION relation with your mom also have an impact on your self esteem I did completely yeah but it’s %HESITATION and ironically a relationship it’s helped me I think it’s helped me to become maybe to become more compassionate because because of growing up in Zimbabwe it was just a racist country and %HESITATION and our family had you know we had gotten a %HESITATION you know and and people who who worked for us and and I I I I hated how they were treated and so I just need to run from five and and not go out of my way to befriend everybody and just have a nice relationship and and and and says I think because maybe because I was treated in a similar way and always felt I was an only without wrong and in trouble I could relate to other people who treated similarly and and and the forms of an internal connection with them and I just need to wrong to treat and I thought especially because %HESITATION adults it just seems even worse to treat them so badly and and that helped me become a I’m not an anti apartheid campaigner when I went to university of my meditations guys university to protest against apartheid amazing and and set in a way %HESITATION I did a family took well actually I am once my mother had passed on I could I see at I was able to thank her because because through my stomach I went to speech therapy that speech therapy I I love the discover king speak it’s become a better public speaker because otherwise it just become I’d probably have meant didn’t just this very shy person you never was just shy and never got out of her comfort zone but because I already went to T. to speak fluently and then and I speak up for people to speak up for animals I I that that’s why I went on the third courses which and a friend of a friend of mine Mets Tony who who led me to kings because and and and thanks consents kings because I’ve never had as much confidence as ever before that’s because %HESITATION as you say at every meeting %HESITATION to speak up just take on a role do something %HESITATION even if it’s just impromptu speaking and and that’s really helped me grow and yeah and I just speak speak up as much as I can not so true I’m just %HESITATION what you’re saying about like how do not today start to probably would not would have done all the work so I find %HESITATION like even like when I speak to people who are fluent M. yeah I think they really take for granted M. the value that their voice has and %HESITATION I think when something is well %HESITATION inside like completely taken taken away from you but when it’s when it’s a struggle at it gives even more drive to want to overcome it absolutely and I started to love the English language I remember specially after the city late because I decided to enjoy each word and they’ll just that English is the most beautiful language and it’s yeah I’d really met ms how to love to love language media yeah M. and I just wanna ask again just M. in regards to your mom and to self esteem because I think self esteem is just so key when where where more growing up and %HESITATION I think to be honest developing self esteem is one of the most important things that we that we have to do because it affects %HESITATION while how we treat ourselves %HESITATION how we are in relationships with others whether we you know take on job opportunities it has such a big impact I agree L. I mean it was it was it was it yeah growing up growing up I did feel and because I was often accused of being a monster I was I was I was killing my mother %HESITATION she sacrificed a lot for me and both of us and %HESITATION and I was just I’m grateful and a monster a lot of the time and and I took that on and %HESITATION and and I did feel unworthy and %HESITATION and it’s useless and and I think which is why I struggle to speak up and and then and then from the naturally fell into a stomach %HESITATION yeah and and at the end the self esteem it’s taken decades to you to be cut to overcome but it’s %HESITATION in exit because she is she is she suggested speech and drama which up never in a million years why would it ever put to speak up and %HESITATION yeah and then %HESITATION when the time is right at I did but that’s yet to assess the system isn’t it it did affect me and %HESITATION remember my first bus puncher at this university he said I was like a frightened butterfly %HESITATION beds that he but he was fantastic and and just helping me %HESITATION and yet it it affected me with L. with relationships I was I was just yeah I just pathetically shy mmhm but I think %HESITATION what comes across to me from what you’re saying is you did though have confidence in your voice to stand up for other people because if you’re where you’re protesting against yes %HESITATION apartheid and %HESITATION so what gave you the %HESITATION the courage on the on the drive there to to stand up for others I think it is just I think that an internal sense of justice the %HESITATION borne of it and then maybe get diskettes squashed often different ways but I think it is one thing I retained and also because my sister is seven years older than me and so when I was ten she was participating in protests and I couldn’t %HESITATION and because she was just she was my inspiration to go M. from ages ten to per and I was very proud of her that she was campaigning against all injustices happening in South Africa and service it so that’s was since I had a good role model when I was a child and but even that I mean I was aware of it from from from young that that shit but those added impetus to go to carry on %HESITATION yes Sir so that was that was young I know that a cousin who was arrested in us very proud for anti apartheid activities not very proud of his work so I think any any any injustice and I think because we suffered injustice I mean you can compare note M. life at home to to the real injustices of of of the glasses Africa and Zimbabwe I make that that’s it just more in the sense of just not feeling understood %HESITATION and that’s a I could god I really want to T. help address health that and I think %HESITATION do you think that actually helped your self esteem as well because %HESITATION because I think I am how can I put it like when you do like good for others when you when you when you when you support others your adding value and therefore it makes feel more where they because you’re actually contributing something positive to the world yet not always feel as if I’m in the right place doing the right thing when I’m helping yep %HESITATION as people yeah whatever and when I’m brave I’m helping it always feels this is where I’m meant to be and it was then I think I always think of my my letting my life’s purpose is to always help and and that’s why I feel it’s right an idea and I think and that set so that would hello my self esteem because also you with other like minded people and any %HESITATION doing something to get that thing I enjoy it I mean I do stuff on my own you know like speaking in schools %HESITATION exit %HESITATION photographic exhibitions but it’s in time M. O. O. as in joy just having that work working with like minded friends and people to to the same goal yes I definitely would help self esteem mia adult doesn’t agree and %HESITATION so you know you’ve kind of been going through all that and then %HESITATION you moved to South Africa and %HESITATION what I find then the next part off of the story it’s just you’d be doing all this like really good stuff and then you know you %HESITATION you face like a very %HESITATION I have a very huge in in in that justice yourself yet %HESITATION yeah the incidence of rape reference Africa is very high I think is one in full and and and and nineteen ninety M. it is a week before Mandela was due to be released our L. as rates %HESITATION by two people %HESITATION and I wasn’t sure if I would survive because one of them threatened to kill me and and I just thought this is such bad timing so every day is about to be free and I’m about to be killed %HESITATION set so it was it was yeah it is obviously the most terrifying experience of my life two months can you talk us through how how does it like how even pit and not in that situation where are you were you were you were facing that threat I lived in a in a flat teaches lock %HESITATION parallel to the different %HESITATION busy active very nice straight ends in Johannesburg %HESITATION and and and I just had a craving for Greek salad one night and I would not want such as of just quite it was about ten o’clock that’s coming back to my flats and and mark was on the outside legend I went T. cuddle him and I was just aware of this man approaching me %HESITATION purposefully and I just put the note he he wants my bag and so I just gave it to him it wasn’t an ugly about it and but then he grabbed my arm saying no he wants more he wants me ends and he showed me a knife and said if you scream I’ll kill you but I wasn’t capable of screening anyway I just think I just shut down %HESITATION any much me across the roads %HESITATION to the garage underneath the block of flats and and and they write me %HESITATION and then there’s another and then S. heard footsteps and turned toward them and he did a thumbs up sign and I thought oh my gosh not and anyway it so so off to the both of them they they left thank goodness yes ma’am my name and I made up some names he asked me where I lived I made up some far away suburb and I’m not close my eyes because I didn’t want to have their faces etched into my brain Sir so the lead on a contending defy them enough for the police anyway but that’s that then %HESITATION I have added that a good friend and he was always in in clubs on this busy street rocky street and I went to find him you know like one in the morning and and he he took me straight to his friend who was that she was a consular and she was amazing because she said you can one hundred percent recover from rape and I’m and I believed her and she gave me such a whiskey identity don’t drink but I gobbled adults it down and she said you know and she just gave me strategies you know what what and what I can do go to the police go to the hospital and and she enters this there is a strong support especially knowing in as you can recover from this I’m and and that’s what happened I went to the in the hospital that had to be treated what had to be tested for every possible STD disease and treating and treating HIV %HESITATION ends and that’s the and that’s quite dramatic a psychiatrist in the hospital said would you rather be dead what at the end that as I thought then you know she must be trying reverse psychology to seeing things see you guys decide case on a hands bits but but I thought that that was a bit bizarre but but but at Banja I wouldn’t I don’t I would rather be dead and and so it is that is off to that for the next six months I had to have tests for HIV and that and the third time I had to have it I land up in hospital I think I just had like a post traumatic stress response and I am telling us not for the first time and double pneumonia so nearly died from that so the hospital for a week %HESITATION and also that I was vegetarian then vegan and they didn’t really have a clue I’m sad get a coffee potato for a male and and the friends were amazing and to bring the food every day and visit me every day especially my one friend Selma ends ends set set sets was and that was not a long journey to recovery %HESITATION yeah I can imagine just like these complete stress on the the shock and the fear and %HESITATION I much and did you feel did you feel anger as well and it was a means so many different things are are I mean if it’s just sounds so petrifying it just hits as many fear I lived alone and I didn’t know how it would live alone again because I just put a kind of kinds some of that my friend but he he moved in with me for a week and I remember one time he just went on to see some friends and I panic sets in any any yet to come back I just couldn’t cope but but but then it did it did ease up and but I did change my life I was nervous and self employed photographer that day and nights and going wherever I was needed to you know as a as a press the magazine photographer and I stopped going out at night doing photography jobs and and my friend and so much she find me and that the flat which is in this beautiful location I mean just up the road but it’s very it’s felt and looked very safe and beautiful at London’s St Pullin and and that’s and that really helps it so changing the cation and changing just ends and I did look I’m excited to go to acquire that was amazing and helping me discover missing beautiful music %HESITATION but I did ask for a lift to the quiet set sights I did lose a lot of my confidence in in negotiating the city or just happened so I did change my life %HESITATION and that S. look at not Medicare dungeon doing what I thought I felt safe with them and that they did do things to to strategies to help me do things beds beds where Phelps I thought I’d ask for help %HESITATION that sense yes so important and I so amazing that you have that help and support them yeah people are fantastic that’s the icing yeah %HESITATION %HESITATION aside from the kind of practical day to day stuff what about %HESITATION how are you coping emotionally and psychologically I was seeing I was sitting at a lot of fantastic therapist so %HESITATION SO he was seeing him as an and as a listing jun the the consular subset both America help me emotionally come just just helped how to deal with this and and comes tons of it and and also started to %HESITATION outside of tai chi which is a bit you know like any peaceful moving meditation and that’s helped me also to get some stillness and some peace so so singing which is very very often very therapeutic singing with a with a group of people with %HESITATION beautiful music and Taichi and therapies I think that those three together help me help me just to T. come to terms with it and and to live to live again in a media yeah I like your really proactive about it I I get into a really determined to overcome this and yes yes and get your life back Jana I think I think it’s at %HESITATION I’m not sure of the time line bits but I did want to see I didn’t want to be stuck and don’t want to be stuck with it and and you just kind of stop my life because of it mmhm yeah yeah because I can I can imagine like %HESITATION like how would you ever feel that you can trust somebody like especially people that you don’t know how can you trust a man again yeah I mean M. it’s it’s I’m fine the funds %HESITATION that’s it’s just me said because they were strangers and because and I think is different is different see ya to somebody no I’m I mean I know that it’s as rough into an interesting violence as well in a that’s that it’s %HESITATION I just think that’s that’s probably sets up to mystic pardon me but at the same time I don’t take safety for granted you know I dentist yacht at at and just do things because I don’t care S. so you know I don’t just put myself into situations where I would feel unsafe some might be more court mode but mark which is the most people maybe that’s that but I don’t take safety for granted I’m blessed to live a full life %HESITATION yeah yeah you do yeah definitely see doing that and I think I am one of the things I remember in a previous conversation that I think helped you in this %HESITATION recovery I don’t know whether would you would you think of it as a as a spiritual thing or but you had to heating dream that’s right that’s right yes yeah thanks for reminding me yes we have the nights often happens I I I had this amazing dream I’m I’m I mean that’s a nice that’s the synoptic suck up going to sleep I’m what you want to go back to the Vatican to speak about a faulty towers A. M. best therapy and the and the and then I had a dream and I was working as looking as beautiful village %HESITATION and it just filled with snow not good it’s F. and the streets are full of snow in the snow on the roofs and I couldn’t I couldn’t smell and feel and taste this one and this one innocence purity and the beauty of the snow and and then you and I was dreaming that I need to needed to hold on to the stream and remember it ends and I have and and and and it did because when I’ve gone to sleep I had the sense of just blackness %HESITATION the to to adjust everything to seem very black %HESITATION but this dream was just that the dentists antithesis and it is beautiful and so very tangible note that the I’m in it you that you know and snow is so clean and pure and you can as fresh manages and and that is a beautiful healing dream yeah and and and that helped me because I retained that honestly I still retain the thirties later hello yeah N. M. A. do you so do you %HESITATION %HESITATION veggie van some kind of higher power or like a spirituality do you think or do you think it was just kind of a psychological %HESITATION experience that kind of help to you like your your minds why are your or your subconscious way of helping you deal with with what’s happened kind of like a like a like a coping mechanism I think I believe in bus and I do believe up our minds are amazing yes it I’ve said my best friend died at another healing dreams so it says I do believe that I do believe that that is a power greater than US agenda into the universe I do believe this this is more than us and and so I do believe I believe in a spiritual life and and that’s S. as in a in a defined that’s it’s ME it’s yeah that’s quite fascinating and powerful and I did that yacht is set so so the meditation at like meditation always finds incredibly helpful %HESITATION and and connecting with nature I find %HESITATION is amazing healing and helpful always see something in the C. Foulis and walking by the sea nonsense I find nature very healing yeah says so I think of it but I believe them so I mean look what what’s working what I’m not I believe in both I think it’s just fascinating how it had jeans do manifest yeah yeah I think it’s still something we still don’t know very much yeah very much about it’s still quite a history yeah M. but I wanted to like us because when you have something so traumatic happen to you and %HESITATION how we form %HESITATION perceptions and mom and meanings about what happened and did you ever felt that will happen to you like wasn’t fair or life wasn’t fair or wind me did you ever go down that road none of us have no I didn’t I’m I’m not sure it’s really interesting because I I mean I do it because I happen to be I don’t know what what is said to me you know I’m sure it’s very easy to go down and feel like a a a victim of circumstance and you just really feel that that injustice I probably thought maybe I thought I deserved it I took the I mean maybe might put my self esteem is so low that I didn’t question but these bad things happen I’m not sure Moro bay didn’t thing why am I didn’t yell at it I don’t think or is it because there was something so common in South Africa yeah very common there come via I think it’s a used to keep it doesn’t happen T. O. R. okay yeah yeah yeah but that’s interesting that you didn’t go down the kind of victim mentality here I mean I mean I think I think a lot of my life %HESITATION because I think I think that I let a lot of my life quite love quite and it just probably not realizing how the I’ll just quite love from childhood because of relationships and boarding school and saw something I was probably in the end the lemon Teletoon always wanting I did have I think I sent had a sense of being misunderstood %HESITATION and and so maybe it was in that state already so what maybe wasn’t new if you don’t if you notice that makes sense I think so I think %HESITATION are you trying to say that the kind of you felt kind of so already highs in your words like low and maybe low self worth it is like well yeah like of course like stuff like this happens like why what why would something better happen for me yeah why yeah I think so yeah why does more of that yeah the US has taken a long long time and with a lot of learning and reading of yeah fantastic’s %HESITATION spiritual healers ends events yeah and yes specialist to kind of learn to overcome that mum mum that’s yeah this is really really really powerful really makes you think %HESITATION but at the same time you you still have this strength in this hope inside you that things can get better and that yeah do you deserve to heal from this yes yes yes maybe the three best the rebellious pointed me in a rebel and that’s what the cash to much of my mother who is the rebel and boarding school at last I was in trouble all the time they’ll expelled %HESITATION and so your accent and automatically I rebel against police in the in a because that what they always said that without since Africans in both ways so such as how it’s set so that’s been the also beset setting I think I’ve always had a fighting spirit as well as such probably like a mixture of both Lovett a fighting spirit when justice and yeah mmhm well at the fighting service versus served you well that’s for sure %HESITATION so as you were %HESITATION coming to terms with with what happened with the with the attack and M. even though you’re like you know you were going to therapy or you’re getting support but your body was kind of communicating to you and like trying to process that this this trauma yes and if he is if he is later well I did because it because of what happens with Africa I decide looking to leave South Africa and I and I moved eventually moved to U. K. and I moved to Devin and then and and then to London and and in London I yeah I would I was lucky enough to find work as a photographer now it like crazy for ten years because freelance self employed couldn’t really say no to a job otherwise markets next person and the neighboring you against us I would like crazy and your singing choir is %HESITATION and then %HESITATION and then I though it was a top paired with quite a narrow time period with three of my cats diets very close together and T. M. and one thousand what a friend who had become estranged from them she took her own life and and and and punch in my face my life kind of my friend from the professor of architecture he and his wife she did that she took a knife and such so look back five major deaths and plus working up crazy and then my body just said it’s enough and I just crashed and and I and I just thought and I was I was struggling to take on photography jobs and eventually I was offered a job in a staged a conduit to climb move and and then and then I I I had an and then and then I just crashed with with any chronic fatigue for three as I’m and again I’m at most I’m also very a for profit to do the kind of natural methods of healing than drugs and I wasn’t gonna pay and so maybe it is but a fibromyalgia %HESITATION any atomic doesn’t have it completely classified a basic basic cage was ruling out to everything else and it kind of left with Mr M. E. any chronic fatigue fibromyalgia and and out of a lots of pain killing drugs which I didn’t want to I want to know what is happening in my body and so so it’s so but eventually and enough to searching online for four courses and and and is very very doom and gloom on online that’s the stuff he finds and people just all these different sentence or didn’t really wanna keep reading about to hear about Melissa said that into this little oasis of course came up until his add energy excellent schools in Wales and S. was it and the guys set it up you know he’s had in the first ten years and T. electric needs to recover and he set up this course and it is it is beautiful yes the mumbles and sets up book to go network in July they need to be some a potentially how it ends ends and it is the best thing I did to to look at because he alone seventy techniques on this course %HESITATION which is definitely not some of them would not be proper breeding definitely breathing visualization meditation techniques NLP M. tapping into E. S. T. answer answer and plus plus their own unique little a little %HESITATION technique on this course and through and through practicing this the course is just three days %HESITATION but but the but the idea is to give you the tools to practice for as long as you need them and I practiced intensely for about two three months and and but even on the course I started to feel better and to get little glimpses of more energy and and that’s and that’s how I recovered from any chronic fatigue syndrome E. R. as because I got a nice fifty and I thought this could be my life a common I’ve got any of it now you know except I literally because I was flat on the bed I couldn’t move I’d have to see if I could yeah I couldn’t I couldn’t get it added a stop my work %HESITATION and so it so too is terrified so that was that was scary because that element to because of my back you know this is your own set set set this course is like a wonderful oasis man and it is fantastic yeah a sense of balance but it took a lot of work you know and I think I think you any S. as as with everything I guess yeah I think get what you put in and until today and so so when I was he wanted to get get my life back or different aspects yeah and and and and again %HESITATION sets also changed Correa and that’s started to change career because %HESITATION that’s another story yeah I know I just want to find out just a bit more about the on if it takes I think %HESITATION quite a lot of people %HESITATION suffer from them as well and M. A. seems to quite a common thing because it from even what you’re saying is like I think a lot of people experience overwhelmed they have two days that just so much pressure so much stuff going on and your body just as long %HESITATION I needed to stop and it’s a raster needs M. so with the techniques and everything that you were doing was it just basically helping your body to like deeply relax and recharge and was also about %HESITATION reducing anxiety as well hundred percent because %HESITATION I think I found a lot of people with ME or attend to be and I never thought I was a perfectionist but its the %HESITATION people just push themselves to hide and and as such a lot of people who get any %HESITATION people just push themselves too hard and if it will I never say no and that’s probably lack of self esteem because you think you need to do this better and better data I don’t know I guess and and then and then your body does have limits and and since the best thing that’s one of the characters of people with ME just to be pardoned themselves into pushing and and another thing was that %HESITATION the but and also learnt that’s that’s %HESITATION the art and I’m not being able to say no yeah being able to send those is a big thing maybe also wanting to please people in again from the old again related to self esteem so the minute what we can learn self is to kind of value and self and not in a selfish way but just in a way that that looking off his self is if you’re looking at yourself then you can go off to others is better yeah totally and and and and spot that differentiation that that we do we do matter we did a lot as a person yeah I just yeah looking after oneself matters I am yes %HESITATION we have a complete a complete agree with you I think it’s some yeah yeah I think that in this kind of self love and self care conversation is I go where where where was the fine line between self love and selfishness yeah and I came across %HESITATION over to get a quote online I think it was I hope I can get it right it’s %HESITATION selfishness is when you put your once before someone else’s needs and %HESITATION like self love is when you put your needs before someone else’s once yeah that’s that’s great definition but only see it when it’s a situation when it’s you have needs and the other person needs %HESITATION I guess is the time to find some kind of compromise yeah yeah yeah yeah and I think that’s a double mattresses that’s yeah he talks but recently about scoring fifty being when the body says no and and it’s also yes the certificate to the anxiety part and so what the technique was them was to stop the body being in a fight or flight situation all the time basically it looked like a dysfunctional %HESITATION over over acting in big data and because and that is why that is that that was causing the pain because because what what winning fight of flight all the time the body shuts down and that is with and and that’s what happens and and also so and and to be cut to becoming a self perpetuating cycle because I wasn’t paying because I felt exhausted I panic is my lives with what’s going to happen such have he’s negative those negative feelings plus pain and the cycle wouldn’t break so the course have to break that pattern and to start inducing deep deep feelings of relaxation and set meditations woman relaxation it’s small is stillness is it’s much deeper so it’s a meditation helps you break that fight to flights twenty four hours which kind of kills it kills he yeah because you know you’re not meant to be advised of light over time I mean it’s meant to be like a quick M. response to danger but and and and and then you can in your cover so is the techniques help to break that pattern of being a constant fight or flight via and that and that’s why and that’s what is so effective and that’s why it takes practice because I had to interrupt myself every time at a panic at the thought of feeling a sense that I’m a good outs interrupt that so E. just like change change your thought like if you’re having a thought like no I have a different thought yeah thanks so the whole technique yeah like a whole twenty seconds program %HESITATION out here and do that as often as it was needed so that’s what it’s it’s as intense intense work %HESITATION beds yeah I guess if you if you can heal yourself and not waste much better than putting drugs inside your body and actually dealing actually trying to heal the the part of your body that needs to be healed exactly rather than just using a a pain killer to numb pain because exactly when your body is in pain is communicating you’re like Hey something’s wrong pay attention to me exactly and then get the tank it would just be a bandaid it wouldn’t address and where did you it was it just like it %HESITATION what kind of pain was it was just like all over kind of it’s as many nights as my legs and my feet were in constant pain mmhm %HESITATION yet the and that that is the main pain and then just to let visited friends I’d have to lie down I can use that set up sure yeah it’s just yeah at a I had to sit down or lie down and not yes standing was and then so how long was that did the healing process take so when you started on this course within the first two three th opted %HESITATION when I saw it and because it lacked a sort of the the that left on the third day they said they can see a difference in me in a I look more alive and then and then when I went home and practised intensely %HESITATION nothing left about two three months eighty percent recovered mile and then I carried on yeah just discard your and I still think I still have a tendency to push push push and then a stop and then that that that the meditation mode under I’d like to did moderate moderately regularly than I do but and that whatever I do it’s it’s has a profound effect mia mia is powerful via well and I think you know M. the also the experience as you said to kind of inspired you to change direction in terms of your career yes because before you were like constantly working being a photographer but then it kind of allowed to this %HESITATION opening in space for you to %HESITATION I guess pursued it %HESITATION maybe is it would just call it your true passion for him yes I’m a mess I love photography I will always love photography because also nailed me to photograph the injustice like human as human rights we took fee and Adam and photography in advertising better shades sad exhibitions of sixty expose what was going on since I’ve used to talk a fee M. politically my campaigns but that’s %HESITATION but as you’re running chaos into photography job answer that job I find of course who is needing immediate rescue you sending any defense mechanism dust will center and %HESITATION with the editor we help to rescue him and taken to century and when I was visiting at the century art that that M. should a magazine with a little tiny advert do you want to become an animal behaviorist and and that and that was my epiphany to yes this is how I can because it causes from from reading Jane Goodall in S. eighteen I wanted to work with animals but is in the house and I mean now that the seventy courses you know and what have you because you can you PH dis but then my note %HESITATION at that point in the day and then there’s nothing well nothing that any of anyway and lands and such as that so I started to study companion animal behavior and I you work as an animal I’m behaviorist yes yes find so what does that entail accepting am because you’re always kind of talk about in the sense X. I’m sure most people hire you because they want to train their %HESITATION anomalous to behave that they want them yeah but what you’re actually there is you know train humans yeah almost without rights yes totally yes it’s it’s a bites %HESITATION and I’m still learning in a day just ways to do it to convince people that that that animal fat bikes into the home what was it however that got that that they have very different needs to what as humans we we need we need to accept such tribes tries to try to get people to see life from analyst from the dog the cat’s perspective and an often yeah and it says but changing the environment changing day interactions and changing expectations because of an as humans we we have huge expectations on dogs or cats which which quite often unrealistic yeah we kind of stick them to be put these perfect beings he he just happily live with us and and dense and Durazo told ya and and just behave like a human right not in a dog a cat like way set set sets about finding that balance of of helping people does let for now with the animals it as a dog %HESITATION as a cat with a individual needs because each one will have will be unique yeah they need to definitely I think yeah H. M. Arnold has its own personality and I think %HESITATION because I I’ve I’ve had a dog when I was younger for only you just they just have their own %HESITATION character their own way of being and %HESITATION their own preferences absolutely yeah yeah and that’s that’s why they they fascinating moon and yeah yeah and so your your love for animals has also %HESITATION what inspired you to become a vegan as well yes yes you’ve been vegan for how long now for twenty seven years twenty seven years while yeah yes I was a deterrent %HESITATION as is Terrence M. thanks to some friends to my friends in Johannesburg mmhm and then and then and then and then when I moved to S. I think this is misty to the U. K. I just realized you know if I really love animals any to stop at all no it it sets up and became a vegan vegetarian of not gonna begin begin overnight and it’s just a huge relief enters into a friend’s friends cut for the set not not that I didn’t each animal I can look you in the face and and that and I felt exactly that that I felt at peace that’s because I used to feel guilty but still do it but it’s not there’s no guilt I am just a sadness that I’ve not done it earlier which is like most vegans is that that the any regrets that they didn’t do yeah %HESITATION that that’s that’s %HESITATION so we can begin and I just became %HESITATION and concerts and in London I joined London digging campaigns and we started the and the vegan pledge helping people go vegan for a month but and and that’s and and does not again you reset hundreds and thousands of people do that that’s that’s the %HESITATION but but I’ve loved all of the campaigning of dance I still do school talks to primary and secondary schools %HESITATION an animal rights and veganism and and yeah and that’s and that’s that’s E. R. at at much that’s that that that’s not cool being you know just %HESITATION and I think I’m very lucky because I’m living I’m living a life with I’m at the and I’m like I think I look I’m lucky that I have a passion and and I’m lucky that I can live it’s and I’m lucky that that’s that that I get to help companion animals %HESITATION live but wherever I can and to help them live as full a life as much as I can possibly help them yeah mazing vacate and %HESITATION I just wanna %HESITATION %HESITATION clarify a bit there and what it actually means to be vegan because I think veganism is a very hot trend recently and %HESITATION I think it’s important to distinguish what it means because some people choose or call themselves vegans but what they’re actually doing just eating a plant based diet and maybe doing it for health reasons or you know because some some pretty girl on the %HESITATION Instagram told them that that’s what they should do you know it’s so am can you clarify that that distinction for us a bit there is a difference up yes as you said plant based eaters focus on diets and then and they might be just not hundred percent strict because it’s about dies as not about %HESITATION the animals or the environment %HESITATION with yeah it’s more about just %HESITATION it’s a good thing to do but which when you go vegan the vegan apply it’s a it’s a lifestyle and so so so and so not consuming any animal products %HESITATION the %HESITATION the produce of inotes let the secretions enough mocha Derry ID or anything like that not not wearing any animal products and and as far as possible and and that’s kinda engaging and entertainment’s related to an incident nothing that involves animal use exploitation and with the vegan society the definition is as far as practical impossible because in our society adult pecan avoids so so I will buy where I can what what what I can only products that are not tested on animals but that’s %HESITATION not drugs %HESITATION assisted animals and when I try and avoid Johnson much that can you know if if my life was dependent on that then out I would have a drug %HESITATION and so and so so it’s not possible to be one hundred percent vegan the set set but I did the victim society definition as far as practical impossible I do it yeah %HESITATION yeah and and that’s the difference and it says it serves said Jenny vegan to go vegan %HESITATION do it for the animals sets of our animals so I don’t suffering first and foremost but but but it naturally helps environments naturally helps what hunger not sure if we are healthy vegan then it helps your health you know and I mean even if you jump the gun that that junk food fix SO better health for your health and then I meet this diet so %HESITATION but that fell out of people if you go vegan for I mean I don’t know the percentages leads some people to go vegan for that for the health then find out about what happens to the animals and then goes fully vegan so that’s happened I’ve heard quite a few stories about that and that’s and that’s encouraging so I don’t mind the initial I don’t care what the recent people D. go vegan or plant based is as long as they keep discovering what’s really going on and then maintain it the E. S. so even if Gabe for the after the varmints yeah then that’s great as long as it’s as long as it continues yeah hello %HESITATION has it been for you to them employment a vegan lifestyle what was it hard to say is that more convenient now I’ve always found it easy because I’ve always cook for myself you know I’ve never said it so the food is there the the the note the NASA sees the grains vegetables and fruits always there and and %HESITATION what was easiest game if you’re not if you go out to restaurants I mean there’s more awareness to even up the the you know the same pizza express will have a vegan menu you know it’s such that’s much easier for getting out and because of the awareness and so and more restaurants will we’ll have we’ll just trying to create more as as opposed to just one maybe it’s like eating an option %HESITATION you know %HESITATION that they’ll have this because it’s a much more choice and for people who who want to have replicas of fate makes that that does that another added in a that’s fine you know I think that is what the foot there’s something for everybody who who who who needs to have whatever they need surgery so it’s L. as fish when you live in the city as really easy %HESITATION and if you cook yourself then it’s really easy way via we have whole home cooked food is is the best yes yeah and you know exactly what you’re putting in that case mmhm yeah whoa thanks %HESITATION and just looking back %HESITATION on all the kind of challenges that you’ve shared and I think I probably mentioned it already but just your %HESITATION your read your resilience and your continued just compassion not just for humanity but for %HESITATION animals like where does that come from because M. you know we kind of heard this term quite a few times about like %HESITATION hurt people hurt people you know like it or someone is maybe you know heart full or dis respect for cycle but the you know they had a rough childhood or you know they went through traumatic experiences that’s why they’re you know they’re they they they behave in a hurtful way to to others but then one night and listen to you you’d like you’d expect you’ve had a rough childhood you’ve experienced trauma but yet you’re like one of the most compassionate caring people that I know so you know I’m kind of very curious like how how how does one person go in one direction and another person in the in a completely opposite direction I thought today exactly why but I’m I’m I mean I know since since about three I’ve loved animals and set some maybe comes from caring caring about something some beings other than myself from tiny tiny maybe sets that that’s the sense of empathy and compassion towards them and that meant and maybe because that’s that’s consistent throughout my life and and and I become much more aligned to that as a became vegetarian and vegan I became more aligned with with my empathy towards them six so do you think is actually something that that that a person is born with I think it’s probably and it’s probably a combination of born with and and and having somebody in your life from a child because I know that the studies that show that the children can and empathy looking a little and and maybe because because I had it but because my system that I met Matt I know my sister was very attached to me when I was very little so maybe I had that from her the death of my mother and my father wasn’t really run that but I had it from her so maybe a lucky and that’s she she I mean an end that yeah she she she loves me Samantha says I’d love from her %HESITATION and even though we are separated all of the time different schools different whatever but but but I had had that initial input from her set set set probably a combination of a good experience with one family member and and is this innate love of of animals ma’am and I think what what he said before just this kind of fight for justice yes for everyone yeah yes when you feel that yeah and just as you want to make it right exactly yeah and set set for me it’s helped having that injustice towards me because they’re not they’re not could empathize with rising to the people who worked for mama and via and then it kind of yeah and then it stays it states and when I went to school yeah cool terms because I wasn’t a racist since the date set so %HESITATION and miss the kids were none so so so what day they made fun of you yeah weren’t races yeah yes while yes oh my god yeah yeah yeah yeah I just tested the yeah yeah one oh area and also sell sees %HESITATION also as such right children’s books also teach it to jam to share my love of %HESITATION get to it to help tell I want I want to and also to start thinking of all these issues in different ways through companion animal books and even as %HESITATION and Mustapha seven press yeah yeah I think it’s a really great idea to %HESITATION to do children’s books because %HESITATION because our minds are so impressionable I want you want to present them with something with something positive yeah yeah yeah well that’s amazing Vicky where we’ve got our our our is up for a week there’s just so many things that are you know so many different things to talk or go even deeper with and understand more but %HESITATION just to wrap up %HESITATION just to ask you my %HESITATION key questions and so looking back on all of the challenges that you’ve had what do you think with the key practices that help to to %HESITATION to overcome to the those challenges and then %HESITATION attain success I think what’s been consistent is that a voice was look for four courses to help me to recover from certain things so it must Semmering I looked for a coaster covenant and I learned techniques and if one didn’t work that the night event maybe a few years later I went to another one and %HESITATION and and and and and then I also thought it would also help me is singing singing in choirs singing an opera group because singing with beautiful music with an orchestra as is the most incredible hi you can ever imagine and meditation where is tai chi %HESITATION %HESITATION %HESITATION depositing meditational meditation with nature %HESITATION that that does it that’s really helped me as well %HESITATION and young and with it with any S. as it’s a course Roland loads of techniques to to announce another technique to help each challenge %HESITATION my my my thinking so like three and a P. techniques that challenging catastrophic thinking check just challenging just challenging my thoughts and helping to reframe affiliates that that’s set hello this thing’s an NHS sitting in the C. walking the mountains yeah those are all things that shift I think have helped me and writing writings helped me as well yes so like %HESITATION educating yourself expressing yourself yeah having ways to ground yourself yeah get still yes yeah so powerful yeah and M. what do you value most and how do you put it into practice M. I value most help helping animals and and so I do that with my vegan lifestyle with %HESITATION the school talks that I. D. campaigning or can and writing books %HESITATION and yet because the books introduce a cool concepts set so it was a speaking up writing and %HESITATION complaining ends full full full full in just for injustice and Ashley Thomas angle he said at the at a Massachusetts %HESITATION %HESITATION %HESITATION %HESITATION society for protection of animals in the eighteen hundreds and anti and people are sitting it’s said to him what why do you spend so much time and money how the animals when there’s so much injustice to people and he’s here applied to and I’m working at the roots and that really resonated with me because animals are the ones with the least voice well this was the tweet and such so helping them Tim is is a natural progression to helping the rest of society because I need help the most vulnerable then again was it because they’re the ones who need the most help Dan Dan Dan Dan society can that’s what I try to help everybody else tomorrow is really powerful %HESITATION I just wanna go slightly deeper in terms of values his %HESITATION without question %HESITATION I want to understand like how to practice %HESITATION certain values so I think what the value out of that B. compassion at embassy yep yeah that yeah set seventy the young lady that you have any compassion and empathy beyond every everything else and justice justice and freedom yeah for every living being at every living being has a need to be free yeah and to and to and to be able to live their lives according to lives that that they had to live their lives going to the fullest potential everything has that need absolutely and that’s and that’s yeah so if someone is like struggling with compassion and at at and at an embassy how would you like in those kind of small everyday ways how can we change into empathy and compassion I think each person I’m if they find what whatever is meaningful to them whatever that whatever whatever appeals to them whether it’s helping a child helping an older person helping different different different groups of people I think if they can just and if that have no time of the blast too busy just in one little thing starting off once a week once a month once a day and it can take two minutes nothing I think and and then the more the more even even just a smile at somebody just compassion doesn’t have to be like this big thing I can be just little building blocks and and just think and so I need to read about learn about other people and and their lives and %HESITATION %HESITATION whatever deals today and of the planet of the people children animals any any aspect of it everyone needs it when setting and needing and and that nothing I think that can start the process of that it’s it’s still it feels I mean because compassion also helps yourself in it and that’s the aim of it but it naturally helps you feel you feel you feel %HESITATION I think I think I’m sure everybody does feel better when helping others there’s a book %HESITATION at stop thinking and start living with but people depression and he says the the minute you start helping others you start to feel better and set set set so it said that so just helping in any way I have a small have a short amount of time writing a letter sending a postcard saying us thinking about you today just anything will take to get you thinking of somebody else will help will help you to help us yeah yeah not so powerful every the every day love that that you said that because it when you hear about like all the things happening in the world it just seems so big in a cycle my gosh what well what can I do and yeah I love that it’s just it’s all about those small steps small actions small things and then over time though just accumulate and it’ll just be a way of life as a team yeah yeah while via yeah I think I’ve noticed it a lot done you know people playing music out of the streets out of their homes for other people via yeah if they like that kind of music officials here but yeah the the the the spirit of generosity the attention hi this is amazing Vicki thank you so much and %HESITATION I’ve loved having this conversation and you know there’s you know I wish we could go a bit deeper into everything so we might have to have some separate conversations so we can tackle each aspect %HESITATION in more depth as of it my biggest pleasure idea if actually if anybody like to find out a bit more about you and what you do where where’s the best place to find you I have a website %HESITATION happy dogs and cats dot co dot UK okay and that’s about my best my and all the heavy work that’s a good place to start fantastic %HESITATION mom make sure to include that link thank you so much for giving has been great the pleasure thank you so much for listening M. if you enjoy this podcast please remember to subscribe and if you think that this episode could benefit someone %HESITATION please share it and catch you next time